2024 120m Mens Ballarat Gift

Ballarat poll

will do a final prediction later but I thought I'd just get the poll up ASAP

Massimo is my winner of this one, whispers are that Sherman wants to have a crack, but won't get to Acquaro IMO


also, can we chill out lifting runners so quickly??? Michael Dinan already up to 8.5m, give me a spell. made a gift final THIS SEASON at Mortlake off 6.5m, this weekend he has 8.5m. Plus the bloke does have ability... at least make him run for his lifts.

Dont even get me started on Goodwin, idc about his age. Won a 400m national title only a few years ago. He had 3m at Macksville, gets 5m at Warrnambool, and now has 6m.

Sherman
Bennett (2nd)
Acquaro (1st)
Templeton
Kennedy (3rd)
Martin
Perry
Brittain

Dare I say it, and maybe I'm going crazy in my old age, Kerr is a serious danger here, big improvement in the gift from Wangaratta to Beachside and has the potential to go one better here, Liked the look of Seth Kennedy also, one to watch off the novice

Norm the Form wrote:Ballarat poll

will do a final prediction later but I thought I'd just get the poll up ASAP

Massimo is my winner of this one, whispers are that Sherman wants to have a crack, but won't get to Acquaro IMO


also, can we chill out lifting runners so quickly??? Michael Dinan already up to 8.5m, give me a spell. made a gift final THIS SEASON at Mortlake off 6.5m, this weekend he has 8.5m. Plus the bloke does have ability... at least make him run for his lifts.

Dont even get me started on Goodwin, idc about his age. Won a 400m national title only a few years ago. He had 3m at Macksville, gets 5m at Warrnambool, and now has 6m.

Dinan does seem strange.

Cobden 100m - 5.25m (heat) SP
Mortlake 120m - 6.5m (8th gift final) SP
Geelong 100m - 5.75m (semi) SP
Warrnambool 120m - 7.5m (heat) (1m lift following 2 runs and making a final) (RPM is 0.4 slower than Mortlake) SP
Terang 120m - 7.5m (semi) RPM back to mortlake's SP
Waverley 100m - 6.5m (semi) SP
Rye 120m - 8m (semi) SP
Beachside 100m - 7m (Semi) SP

Received NAP-T's last season for 120's off 6.5m with an RPM of .12 this season started with 0.1229 at Cobden and received an SP, then goes .114 at the next meet at Mortlake. Only missed the semis ONCE this season but has been moved nearly 2m over 100m... won the Stawell frontmarkers in 2022 can clearly run. Frustrating when we see established athletes struggling to get out of heats and fighting for 0.25m after every 3 runs.

Just on the topic of the Dinans… Michael’s brother Matt has been lifted from 6.5 to 8.5 in a week. Can someone explain why Matt has gotten a 2m lift in such a short amount of time?

Pick of the yard is the young Seth Kennedy

Sherman
Kerr 3rd
Bennett
Templeton
Acquaro 2nd
Kennedy 1st
Culbert
Michael Dinan

naughtycorner wrote:Just on the topic of the Dinans… Michael’s brother Matt has been lifted from 6.5 to 8.5 in a week. Can someone explain why Matt has gotten a 2m lift in such a short amount of time?

This handicapper is out of control, he's lifted some OGAs 4m and others 1.5 and lifted a previous Stawell masters 100m winner to mark bigger than he's previous win.  

If this continues entries will go now.

By all means debate the men’s gift OGA lifts if you please (won’t help anything but each to their own), but don’t make shit up. Colin does not handicap the masters sprint. Would’ve thought if you were commenting on a particular events handicapper you might want to know who it is hey

timrosen35 wrote:By all means debate the men’s gift OGA lifts if you please (won’t help anything but each to their own), but don’t make shit up. Colin does not handicap the masters sprint. Would’ve thought if you were commenting on a particular events handicapper you might want to know who it is hey

That's even worse then with two of them making some very debatable decisions .  

Everyone's not like you involved in gossip and sticking your nose in. Its not even clear who is handicapping what events from the race reports. And the current masters sprint handicapper is not listed at every meeting.

For example at Warrnambool the following Handicappers are listed Colin Lane, Kim McDonough, David Milligan & Luke Mitchell. The current masters handicapper is not listed.

Lifting some OGA's excessively and then giving first time runners like Lawson Power {10.6,21.1,46.8} 5m mark is lacking common sense. You can't just use RPM's to handicap alone, there is a degree of common sense needed. There is also a need to be fair to established runners. If that's the new way of handicapping lifting OGA's excessively, then it better to done to all of them, and that will be a disaster for all of the established runners.

Updated final predictions.

Sherman is on a mission! A mission to ruin his Stawell chances, but now he’s gotten this far, I hope he wins.

You’ll notice there’s plenty of backies! Should make for a great final, predict Cooper to go past them all

Sherman 1st
Bennett
Templeton
Moss 3rd
Acquaro 2nd
Kennedy
Martin
Perry

Yes he is listed. David Milligan is the masters handicapper in the event you’ve spoken about. You really have no idea do you?

Also, sticking my nose in? If you think I’m “in” with any handicappers think again. Go look at my marks progression this season. I’ll give you the tip…I have run almost every meet and received a grand total of 0 lifts in every single event. So I might need to work better at being an “insider” hey

Debate whatever you like, but at least attempt to use facts

timrosen35 wrote:Yes he is listed. David Milligan is the masters handicapper in the event you’ve spoken about. You really have no idea do you?

Also, sticking my nose in? If you think I’m “in” with any handicappers think again. Go look at my marks progression this season. I’ll give you the tip…I have run almost every meet and received a grand total of 0 lifts in every single event. So I might need to work better at being an “insider” hey

Debate whatever you like, but at least attempt to use facts

Facts according to who ? You? You're hardly being honest, I can already see you've been lifted in the 70m. So that's a flat out lie saying you haven't been lifted.  You started the season .25m better compared to the last handicapper from the previous season and you've been lifted another .25, so that's a flat out lie you haven't been lifted.

You are the ultimate insider, and you know all the rumour and gossip but when it comes to facts you act like you're the only one who knows the facts. The fact that you're posting here when you're in the SF of a gift and that just shows how out of touch you are.  Being in the top 16 or 24 shows' that your marks are just about right and the point I was making is that handicapping decisions have been out of the norm this season. That is a fact, 4m, 2m, 1.5m lifts in the sprints for OGA's undermines the system, because it isn't happening to all of them and its hardly fair to locals that grind away for .25m.

Norm the Form wrote:Ballarat poll

Dont even get me started on Goodwin, idc about his age. Won a 400m national title only a few years ago. He had 3m at Macksville, gets 5m at Warrnambool, and now has 6m.

^
Cmon Murray
14.83 off 3 at macksville rpm- 0.1268
13.94 off 5 at Warrnambool rpm- .1212
12.66 off 6 at Ballarat rpm .1111

🤯

He also ran a 550m heat on Sat morning. Pretty good effort to make a Gift final on the same weekend.3m lift in half a season helps. ‍�

Socks off Sanchez wrote:He also ran a 550m heat on Sat morning. Pretty good effort to make a Gift final on the same weekend.3m lift in half a season helps. ‍�

What is a reasonable Hcp for Murray? 37 years old and 8 years since his SG win?

Maybe hcpr was actively correcting the ridiculous mark of 3m.

At that age and making gift finals of 6m is pretty impressive.

Robbo wrote:

Socks off Sanchez wrote:He also ran a 550m heat on Sat morning. Pretty good effort to make a Gift final on the same weekend.3m lift in half a season helps. ‍�

What is a reasonable Hcp for Murray? 37 years old and 8 years since his SG win?

Maybe hcpr was actively correcting the ridiculous mark of 3m.

At that age and making gift finals of 6m is pretty impressive.

No one is saying that he isn’t impressive for his age.

He’s been lifted 3 metres and improved 15 metres

His age is irrelevant he is still a quality athlete.

Pick of the yard wrote:

Robbo wrote:

Socks off Sanchez wrote:He also ran a 550m heat on Sat morning. Pretty good effort to make a Gift final on the same weekend.3m lift in half a season helps. ‍�

What is a reasonable Hcp for Murray? 37 years old and 8 years since his SG win?

Maybe hcpr was actively correcting the ridiculous mark of 3m.

At that age and making gift finals of 6m is pretty impressive.

No one is saying that he isn’t impressive for his age.

He’s been lifted 3 metres and improved 15 metres

His age is irrelevant he is still a quality athlete.

This is heat 5 at Warnambool for your information. This was the heat that had to run back to back after there was a technical issue.

Murray was threatened with a fine on the week right before the final which doesn’t seem to be a balanced approach if we have in fact broke the rules.


Warrnambool H5
Kevin Brittan
13.082 Warnambool
12.38 St Albans- No report or penalty

Aubrey Watson
13.161 Warrnambool
12.6 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Lucas Archer
13.378 Warrnambool
12.8 St Albans - No report or penalty

Hamish Adams
13.84 Warnambool
13.38 Terang - No report or penalty

Noah Lyons
14.31 Warrnambool
13.25 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Chris Diegan
14.64 Warnambool
13.3 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Robbo wrote:

Pick of the yard wrote:

Robbo wrote:

Socks off Sanchez wrote:He also ran a 550m heat on Sat morning. Pretty good effort to make a Gift final on the same weekend.3m lift in half a season helps. ‍�

What is a reasonable Hcp for Murray? 37 years old and 8 years since his SG win?

Maybe hcpr was actively correcting the ridiculous mark of 3m.

At that age and making gift finals of 6m is pretty impressive.

No one is saying that he isn’t impressive for his age.

He’s been lifted 3 metres and improved 15 metres

His age is irrelevant he is still a quality athlete.

This is heat 5 at Warnambool for your information. This was the heat that had to run back to back after there was a technical issue.

Murray was threatened with a fine on the week right before the final which doesn’t seem to be a balanced approach if we have in fact broke the rules.


Warrnambool H5
Kevin Brittan
13.082 Warnambool
12.38 St Albans- No report or penalty

Aubrey Watson
13.161 Warrnambool
12.6 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Lucas Archer
13.378 Warrnambool
12.8 St Albans - No report or penalty

Hamish Adams
13.84 Warnambool
13.38 Terang - No report or penalty

Noah Lyons
14.31 Warrnambool
13.25 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Chris Diegan
14.64 Warnambool
13.3 Ballarat - No report or penalty

Ignoring Macksville RPM huge improvement then?

Sorry Robbo - them athletes have had multiple runs in between that and shown improvement in each run. Shouldn’t be using Age as an excuse for Goodwin who’s known as a quality athlete. the RPM differential between them three runs is huge and up there with some fairly quick athletes on the circuit.

quickness wrote:Sorry Robbo -  them athletes have had multiple runs in between that and shown improvement in each run. Shouldn’t be using Age as an excuse for Goodwin who’s known as a quality athlete. the RPM differential between them three runs is huge and up there with some fairly quick athletes on the circuit.

The VAL stewards advised us the Maxsville times are a right off so you are only comparing  Warnambool to the next run.

St Albans and Ballarat are similar lengths of time from Warnambool.  So what you are saying improvement only exists if you race week in week out? I think that is why the OGA exists because that is not achievable.

Robbo, you’re trying to sell sand to the Eygyptians. Murray has his get out of jail free card now when he runs another 3m quicker in 6 weeks, with a final appearance at Ballarat.
If the Macksville performances were a right off, then he shouldn’t have received a 2m lift for a much lower than expected performance.
Some handicap lifts have been inconsistent in recent weeks (some mind blowing), with the example of Murray’s lifts this season sends a message for all OGA athletes to run poorly and you’ll be rewarded.

Socks off Sanchez wrote:Robbo, you’re trying to sell sand to the Eygyptians. Murray has his get out of jail free card now when he runs another 3m quicker in 6 weeks, with a final appearance at Ballarat.
If the Macksville performances were a right off, then he shouldn’t have received a 2m lift for a much lower than expected performance.
Some handicap lifts have been inconsistent in recent weeks (some mind blowing), with the example of Murray’s lifts this season sends a message for all OGA athletes to run poorly and you’ll be rewarded.

We advocated for the OGA to be abolished last year so you won’t get any argument from me. Very little transparency for lifts and pulls which can’t be argued for or against, which makes all this debates worthless. What I learned last year, the OGA largely sits outside of the reg guidelines and mostly applied as discretion if required.

There are some parts of the rules that could be interpreted to suggest that Muzz shouldn’t have 3m to start with so I’m not sure it this supports your argument.

We can go around in circles but, my point is Warnambool h5 was comprised and all athletes improved significantly in the coming months. We can target Murray or we can look at all the improvements.

I’ll leave my final thought here. Murrays not the only athlete to receive such a lift but the dramatic improvement in his rpm improving by 1 second and the metre lift is just out of whack and shows that some athletes who have and could possibly still receive this treatment can unfortunately compromise the sport. Increments of 0.25 should be given as per usual after a three meets for ALL athletes. - Especially given Muzzs history and results / his at an age where I’ve seen athletes still running quality 120s. Tar

Clearly there is some flat out cheating, dishonesty and unfairness going on. Murray ran marginally faster (0.2) comparing RPMs than vets winner at  Warmambool.

That's all spin Robbo, no way in the world rpm of  .1212 of Murray at at Warmambool is a maximum effort,  which equates to outside of 12 seconds for the 100m. Those other athletes are vets/ runners with all due respect with limited ability or generally not of the class of Murray. In the case of Kevin Brittain , firstly you pick raw times  ( Warmambool) and compare that to adjusted times at St Albans. That is very misleading  as you should be comparing adjusted times to adjusted times, secondly St Albans had track adjustment of 0.15.

Now it is great that you cite Kevin Brittain, because we all know he turns up every week and goes flat out. He doesn't hold back and cheat. Now its blatantly clear when comparing Kevin Brittain's times to Murray at Warmambool, that Murray was not going flat out. Kevin Brittain RPM from the heat was 0.1174 and Murray .1212, no way in the world should Brittain be rating that much faster than Murray. Its flat out cheating and I'm calling it out. Now at Ballarat Murray is running 0.4 faster than Brittain, that is 0.8 turnaround. Please can there be a more blatant example of running dead.

I don’t blame the coach or athlete they are acting in their own personal interest and taking advantage of the system. There are many other examples of OGA’s getting excessive lifts and some getting harsh pulls and others not being lifted at all. The sprint handicapper has to take responsibility for his/ their decisions and these large lifts have thrown the entire system upside down.  Generally speaking when athletes get to inflated marks, that just a kick in the teeth to the genuine participants.

None of the previous sprint handicappers Graeme Goldsworthy, Terry O'Donnell, Ricky Dunbar would be handicapping OGA's  like the the current sprint handicapper. The rules give the handicapper discretion, but common sense  should be applied.

Lot of pot shots made towards Goldsworthy  in the past and those people gone quite now Now the system is out of whack and a mess.

My point was that Warnambool H7 (sorry I wrote 5 above) was heavily impacted / compromised by having to rerun immediately , names in that heat are irrelevant. Just put the data here to support our position on the Murrays improvement. It was acknowledged in the race report and one athlete was permitted to withdraw due to fatigue.

We don’t have an axe to grind about the hcpr despite having athletes on both sides of the argument. Any issue relating to vast improvements or performance is a stewarding role.

I suggest you articulate your position in an appropriate setting with the VAL.