Anchor McDeadun’s post Stawell musings.

Castlemaine Jim you are spot on what a way to end the Carnival .Women very rarely win a mixed race so how about it VAL no more mixed races make it even for all .Fairness across the board Women Back Marker have a capping system no more than 6. Same as men you would have a fantastic race people would want to watch the best going at it almost head to head a bookies dream

Yes it's frustrating because in events like the maters 300 open 400 open 800 and open or restricted 1600 we have all watched and enjoyed meg d Anna k Amy m Caitlin h martine b sue a suz s Katherine k katie m Eliza e Natalie d and many more lead into the straight and hold on to win or at come top 3 in very exciting realistically handicapped races. Don't get me wrong we all know if you don't come to stawell in Pb shape you are no hope in anything so jess payne who we all admire is not a good example last weekend as she ran 13.69 off 4.75 on Saturday 12 months ago but last weekend if in similar form should have run around 14 05 off 2.5 but could only produced 14.27 so based on that she had no hope in the 200 anyway. As I said previously the biggest problem with mixed sprints races is for example is if let's say an 11.80 100 metre sprinter who is usually male unless elite does 50 open 70 races and a 12.80 100 metre sprinter who is usually female or an again male does 50 open 70 races the amount of times the 11.80 sprinter is winning getting into finals/semis in general heavily outweighs the 12.80 sprinters success. Nobody is begrudging anyone e for being faster male or elite but it's glaringly obvious that whilst any handicapping system says eventually we all finish equal if at best the facts say in mixed sprints the 11.80 male sprinter is beating the 12.80 female sprinter home far more often than not Cheers Jim

Yo Jim, you never introduced yourself or bought me those drinks! I’m banking them for next year. A bet is a bet

It will be an honour mate didn't make it to the pub Monday night got stuck with some old friends at the caravan park which went far longer than planned.lets not wait until stawell next year I will do it at the the cobden hotel or rsl in 6 months after my debut.you ran very well my friend

Norm the Form wrote:Going on your logic, why don’t we just tell the masters athletes to get faster? Why don’t we just make the Stawell limit 2m and just let Chico, Despard and Doran fight it out for the 40k.

It’s pro running mate, every race has a ceiling and start time. Everyone works their butt off to do the best they can off their handicap over every distance. The top 0.1% are the ones that make up the national final. Outside of that, I don’t understand why everyone else doesn’t run pros where they’re a chance to win a sash and prize money

You ve missed my point and not read my posts. Masters sprinters in their 50s were pulling away from female state champ. That says it all.

The standard of female sprinters in the VAL is not that strong, masters in their 50s could win races in women's events. I'm just stating the facts. It's not all about talent, no shortage of athletes find success because they do the hard work. The fact that that 50 year olds pull away from the best girls, just shows they are not doing longer work.

Typical Aussie mentality create new events to avoid competition. NCAA Division 2 or 3 female  track athletes could win those races. It's not because they're more talented, they just train harder.

The Stawell 120m should have 5m limits. Every good amateur would enter , and the good pro backmarker would still have a chance. Why not invite internationals ?  It would be more exciting to see Browning v Chico off tight marks ? I'm sure that would attract more national attention and sponsors. There are other races for those from bigger marks. You see the sport is going down the mediocrity path, it will never expand or grow that way.

The Architect wrote:

Norm the Form wrote:Going on your logic, why don’t we just tell the masters athletes to get faster? Why don’t we just make the Stawell limit 2m and just let Chico, Despard and Doran fight it out for the 40k.

It’s pro running mate, every race has a ceiling and start time. Everyone works their butt off to do the best they can off their handicap over every distance. The top 0.1% are the ones that make up the national final. Outside of that, I don’t understand why everyone else doesn’t run pros where they’re a chance to win a sash and prize money

You ve missed my point and not read my posts. Masters sprinters in their 50s were pulling away from female state champ. That says it all.

The standard of female sprinters in the VAL is not that strong, masters in their 50s could win races in women's events. I'm just stating the facts. It's not all about talent, no shortage of athletes find success because they do the hard work. The fact that that 50 year olds pull away from the best girls, just shows they are not doing longer work.

Typical Aussie mentality create new events to avoid competition. NCAA Division 2 or 3 female  track athletes could win those races. It's not because they're more talented, they just train harder.

The Stawell 120m should have 5m limits. Every good amateur would enter , and the good pro backmarker would still have a chance. Why not invite internationals ?  It would be more exciting to see Browning v Chico off tight marks ? I'm sure that would attract more national attention and sponsors. There are other races for those from bigger marks. You see the sport is going down the mediocrity path, it will never expand or grow that way.

Are you suggesting that female athletes in Australia have less talent, or don’t train hard?

No we have all read your posts and clearly your missing the point.first of all based on your proposal to have the limit at 5metres for the gifts we would have had 25 males and 13 females competing in last weeks biggest pro races of the year.That is not what the gift is about and doing that will have no impact on improving female athletics.you keep repeating that a 50 something men ran away from a state female champion but let's be honest jess payne is a fine athlete but she won in 23.90 whereas the under 20 state champion jess milat can run 23.20 so jess p is not your typical state champion.I seriously doubt your 50 year master could run away from a fully fit torrie Lewis hana basic naa anang bree masters etc.As we all know most 11.90 female athletes or 10 90 male athletes just can't get down to 11 4 or 10.4 no matter how professionally they train diet live etc because they just don't have the ability.Adding a women's 200 at Stawell has nothing to do with avoiding competition the fact is we have a 70 a 120 a 400 and an 800 for both sees but only a 200 for men.cheers jim

castlemaine jim wrote:No we have all read your posts and clearly your missing the point.first of all based on your proposal to have the limit at 5metres for the gifts we would have had 25 males and 13 females competing in last weeks biggest pro races of the year.That is not what the gift is about and doing that will have no impact on improving female athletics.you keep repeating that a 50 something men ran away from a state female champion but let's be honest jess payne is a fine athlete but she won in 23.90 whereas the under 20 state champion jess milat can run 23.20 so jess p is not your typical state champion.I seriously doubt your 50 year master could run away from a fully fit torrie Lewis hana basic naa anang bree masters etc.As we all know most 11.90 female athletes or 10 90 male athletes just can't get down to 11 4 or 10.4 no matter how professionally they train diet live etc because they just don't have the ability.Adding a women's 200 at Stawell has nothing to do with avoiding competition the fact is we have a 70 a 120 a 400 and an 800 for both sees but only a 200 for men.cheers jim

Basic has pb of 24s , not a 200 runner or ran many. Avoids them like the plague. Masters can't break sub 23s. I'm more interested in upcoming diamond league meets. If Lewis was the emerging star, why not try and come to Europe ?

You're wrong with those numbers, Australia has quite a bit of depth at the moment. Look at open and junior champs. Sorry misguided people running the sport. Zoe Hobbs ran sub 11, priority should be getting her to Stawell. Brian Roe use bring and fund the internationals through AA.

Anchor McDeadun wrote:

The Architect wrote:

Norm the Form wrote:Going on your logic, why don’t we just tell the masters athletes to get faster? Why don’t we just make the Stawell limit 2m and just let Chico, Despard and Doran fight it out for the 40k.

It’s pro running mate, every race has a ceiling and start time. Everyone works their butt off to do the best they can off their handicap over every distance. The top 0.1% are the ones that make up the national final. Outside of that, I don’t understand why everyone else doesn’t run pros where they’re a chance to win a sash and prize money

You ve missed my point and not read my posts. Masters sprinters in their 50s were pulling away from female state champ. That says it all.

The standard of female sprinters in the VAL is not that strong, masters in their 50s could win races in women's events. I'm just stating the facts. It's not all about talent, no shortage of athletes find success because they do the hard work. The fact that that 50 year olds pull away from the best girls, just shows they are not doing longer work.

Typical Aussie mentality create new events to avoid competition. NCAA Division 2 or 3 female  track athletes could win those races. It's not because they're more talented, they just train harder.

The Stawell 120m should have 5m limits. Every good amateur would enter , and the good pro backmarker would still have a chance. Why not invite internationals ?  It would be more exciting to see Browning v Chico off tight marks ? I'm sure that would attract more national attention and sponsors. There are other races for those from bigger marks. You see the sport is going down the mediocrity path, it will never expand or grow that way.

Are you suggesting that female athletes in Australia have less talent, or don’t train hard?

Speak to any domestic coach that has coached sprinters in the US or Jamaica. Athletes train twice as hard and twice as long. I don't want to outline programs but these are the observations of many.

Great call architect let's get Jackson Thompson and Fraser pryce for the gift miller ubo for the 400 and mu and tomlinson for the 800.got a spare 2 million or maybe we can charge 2000 for a 3 day pass and 19 bucks a furphy

Those are ridiculous points, you dont need to outlay that of kind of money. Zoe Hobbs ran domestically and there was zero effort to bring her to Stawell. No Ella Connolly or other top amateurs. I wonder why ? Scared of more competition? Good for the sport 40 yo winning the womens 400m. It's embarrassing. There are 300m masters and 100m masters races. There is no shortage of domestic talent and you only need two or three internationals. Brian Roe did it for decades.

Zoe Hobbs was very close to coming apparently. She did have discussions with the organisers.

Lol. At least we’ve now worked out you have 0 clue Architect. Zoe Hobbs was so close to coming that they even had a handicap assigned to her. A lot of the other elite women were also invited too, but opted not to attend. And most of the men did turn up if they were fit to race.

As for the “40 year old winning the women’s 400”, maybe research her story and you’ll realise why it is huge for the sport. It encourages all women to return to the sport after becoming a mum, plus all of the other challenges she has faced physically. Ridiculous comment.

As for your earlier point about masters sprinters, we have some of the best masters sprinters in the world competing in the VAL at times. There is no shame them “pulling away” from other athletes.

The Architect wrote:Those are ridiculous points, you dont need to outlay that of kind of money. Zoe Hobbs ran domestically and there was zero effort to bring her to Stawell. No Ella Connolly or other top amateurs. I wonder why ? Scared of more competition? Good for the sport 40 yo winning the womens 400m. It's embarrassing. There are 300m masters and 100m masters races. There is no shortage of domestic talent and you only need two or three internationals. Brian Roe did it for decades.

So based on this , it must have been embarrassing when Suz Sinclair or Anna Pasquali won the same race. One of the stranger comments I have read on here.

You're post shows you know little about T & F outside of Australia. The fact is Zoe Hobbs didn’t run and she had been running domestically, all the rest is smoke mirrors and you’re gullible if you believe anything what the administrators tell you.

I was watching Stawell live with other internationals, and they were shocked at the prizemoney for the level of performance in some events its high school level. From an international perspective no one cares about the sob story. You perform or you don't. Everyone got a sad story, sore achillies, hamstrings , surgery , we’ve all heard it. But what’s very Australian is seeking sympathy and whining and complaining.

In the US athletes flip burgers, not unheard of working two or three jobs even Olympians in track struggle to earn a living. You won’t hear them complain. That’s how they get to top.

Sinclair we’re talking about 58s runners over 400m. Pasquali senior from 14m limit from my research. Its embarrassing that this is the standard. It’s laughable , surely you want faster athletes winning. I don't want hear this non sense about ability or talent. That's the excuse lazy people make for not training hard. For those that max out their talent and can't win at Stawell that ensures the prestige of the event.

I know very little about track and field hey? Wanna have a friendly little wager someday then? Aths trivia comp. In person. Any amount of $$$. I warn you, this only ends one way

Ps. *Your

No google , how old was Usain Bolt in his first Olympics ? What was his time ?
What year did he first run the 100 ? What was his time ?

What athlete was banned by the IAAF and United States Supreme Court ruled in their favour ? Hint world record holder.

The Architect wrote:You're post shows you know little about T & F outside of Australia. The fact is Zoe Hobbs  didn’t run and she had been running domestically, all the rest is smoke mirrors and you’re gullible if you believe anything what the administrators tell you.  

I was watching Stawell live with other internationals, and they were shocked at the prizemoney for the level of performance in some events its high school level. From an international perspective no one cares about the sob story. You perform or you don't. Everyone got a sad story, sore achillies, hamstrings , surgery , we’ve all heard it. But what’s very Australian is seeking sympathy and whining and complaining.

In the US athletes flip burgers, not unheard of working two or three jobs even Olympians in track struggle to earn a living. You won’t hear them complain. That’s how they get to top.  

Sinclair we’re talking about 58s runners over 400m. Pasquali senior from 14m limit from my research. Its embarrassing that this is the standard. It’s laughable , surely you want faster athletes winning. I don't want hear this non sense about ability or talent. That's the excuse lazy people make for not training hard. For those that max out their talent and can't win at Stawell that ensures the prestige of the event.

Why are you bothering to read and post on a pro running forum, when it is clearly beneath your lofty standards?

Maybe you need to take your diatribe to a more highbrow platform, like Let’s Run.

btw, that was sarcasm.

The Architect wrote:No google , how old was Usain Bolt in his first Olympics ? What was his time ?
What year did he first run the 100 ? What was his time ?

What athlete was banned by the IAAF and United States Supreme Court ruled in their favour ? Hint world record holder.

If this is the level of question then you’re in serious trouble

He ran as a 17 year old in Athens. Don’t know the exact time without googling cos who the hell would, but he was sore and didn’t break 21. I remember that much. His first 100m race was in 2007 when his coach told him he needed a secondary event and had to choose between the 100 and 400. He ran 10.03 and never had another season where he didn’t break 10 despite injury interruptions.

I reckon there’s a couple of cases of the Supreme Court overturning bans, but your world record holder hint makes me lean towards Butch Reynolds? If I’m wrong I’m blaming it on the shit question

I will tip my hat to you that's impressive. Don't fall for the sob stories, how do know any of them are true ? Unless you see X rays and medical proof.

It appears runners embellish their stories to maximise their handicaps. Surely in a handicap system some runners will turn up out of shape to maximise their handicaps? In amateur athletics if you turn up out of shape, you’re told to come back fit and in shape. It's totally different but I see this handicap running could learn a lot from amateur athletics. Especially the track culture in the US

I’m more interested in upcoming diamond league events. Lofty elite standards, I don’t think so. Arthur Lydiard use to turn average runners into sub 2.30 marathoners. Australia has long rich history in distance and sprint running. Everyone should be longing to a return to those days.

The Architect wrote:I will tip my hat to you that's impressive. Don't fall for the sob stories, how do know any of them are true ? Unless you see X rays and medical proof.

It appears  runners embellish their stories to maximise their handicaps.  Surely in a handicap system some runners will turn up out of shape to maximise their handicaps? In amateur athletics if you turn up out of shape, you’re told to come back fit and in shape. It's totally different but I see this handicap running could learn a lot from amateur athletics. Especially the track culture in the US

I’m more interested in upcoming diamond league events. Lofty elite standards, I don’t think so.  Arthur Lydiard use to turn average runners into sub 2.30 marathoners. Australia has long rich history in distance and sprint running. Everyone should be longing to a return to those days.

What sob stories are you talking about Architect ??