Is the SAAL just a little Aths comp now?

Nearly every photo I see on on the official SAAL Facebook appears to only feature athletes that look like they are from Little Aths.

Is this the aim and direction of the SAAL?
Or is it they are these athletes are making up the majority of the numbers in the absence of senior athletes and therefore they have to feature in the photos?

Whilst recruitment of youth is an important direction, not at the absence of retainment particularly the better and more elite athletes that the younger athletes should be looking up to.

The handicapping and stewarding systems and protocols should be designed to encourage regular participation from consistent handicap progressions and not plonking random movements from week to week which are creating advantage to newer athletes. By encouraging participation and slower handicap movements like what is done in the VAL, retainment, high participation, conservative and consistent handicapping, and increased revenue via higher entries are interlinked and complimentary of each other.

The SAAL have completely missed the concept of tying these issues together and how they compliment each other.

Please SAAL time to wake and smell the roses, your League has become a mere fraction of what it once was. Next season will only be worse if you continue down the same track. Time to copy the VAL systems and get yourself out of this hole and return the SAAL to what it once was but with better rules and processes minimising non evidence based based discretion like the VAL have had for 20 years!

All the best SAAL, but this will require strong leadership, the ability to listen, and the ability to acknowledge that the path they on is flawed and littered with errors and many of the people that have been antagonistic and challenged the most recent administration have actually had legitimate arguements and claims.

Good luck, the time is now to change direction!

Pretty much summed it all up Willo.
The saal held a survey in which almost to thirds said they didnt want the new system yet the saal went ahead and ran with it.
Yes ofcourse you need to be brave enough to try new things but you also need to have the courage to put your hand up when they dont work.
The system as it stands caters for a life span of approx 3 to 4 years in the saal , gone are the days when you had an athlete beginning as a 14 year old and still doing it in over 35s.
I was speaking to Gossips on the weekend and I asked why are you continually flogging something that isnt working. The reply was , that it was a lot easier to get grants if you roll up and push this new system.If thats the case, if the league is relying on handouts in the way of grants, the future looks very bleak.Get off your backsides , get on that dog and bone or door knock , reach out to the wider community , just like all those before us have done ,and dont try and take the easy way out.
And yes Willo its becoming more like Little As as the open athletes drop off.
The little As , they are the ones who come for their race then leave , they are the ones who havent the money to spend at the fund raiser barbie or canteen, they are the ones who cant or wont attend After parties, they are the ones who dont arrive early to help set up or arent there to pack up the list goes on , so if you are promoting little A athletes this is what you will end up with.
And its amazing at Loxton next week when the roster goes up , A to M to set up and N to Z to pack up , how many little As and their families forget what their surname begins with.

The VAL system which has processes, rules etc and is more distant from the old discretion would have also allowed for the application of government grants whilst also not alienating the rank and file and maintaining revenue streams and providing confidence in slow progressive and conservative handicapping.

SAAL haven’t thought about the entire picture at all !!

Short answer is YES!
Its pretty much a glorified Little A's comp. Thing is a small suburban club get more Little A's competing each week than what the SAAL gets each meet!
Yes the sport needs the young ones but most dont go on once they get to 17-18 so they are not the answer entirely to the survival of athletics in SA.

On the 58% survey, I keep being reminded that those that didnt have an opinion go towards those that are happy with the system??

Come election time the Labor Party will be happy with this hypothesis. Can you imagine, 48% will vote LNP, 40% say they will vote Labor with the remaining 12% undecided so this means they'll vote Labor and win???

Numbers for PA last year, the number of competitors were 273, this year the number of nominations are only 227 with a drop out rate (scratchings) of approx 25% will see around 170 compete this year.

At what point do you acknowledge its not working?

Where are the grants btw? Allegedly 5K on a wind reader that didnt come from a grant from what I was told and purchased at a time the SAAL could least afford it but did anyway. There is another story to this wind reader too btw!

I am still baffled how an Athlete of the meet can win underage races only and win the award.
At the Bay , its on a points basis and theres a stipulation of what races you earn your points in.So if you win the under 14 120m, under 14 550 ,and under 18 120m , 3 sashes you wont win athlete of the meeting.However if you are underage and win an open race this win counts.
At Camden we saw an underaged athlete win the award , discretion choice of the starters for winning two under age events.WRONG The award should have been given to Connor McIvor , brought back 90 metres from his previous run at Victor , he won under target time and made up many many lengths in the last lap to get up , what a run and thats what athlete of the meeting typifies.
But no lets give it to one of our Little As , next they will be giving out encouragement awards for attendance like they do at Little As ..but wait they are $20 if you dont make the final in 120m open and womans at Loxton.
Can we put on a free slush puppie for the rest.

Still trying to chase this one down, Gossips was on the dog and bone to me today.
It appears that you shouldnt make the saal look stupid at an appeals hearing and there after.
From what Gossips was telling me , A Bay Sheffield winner has joined Youngy on the sidelines.
Im still trying to stitch this story up but it seems that the saal have used their grubby little tactics all over again.
Is it another ban.
They call me the Whisperer but I couldnt do it without Gossips.

Yep another banning! The only crime was to provide evidence at an appeals hearing. Sounds like communism to me! This is how they are treating members! Its disgraceful.
If you oppose this lot look out, if you have a difference of opinion look out, if you are able to prove aspects of how data was entered was incorrect banned.
They then wonder why people get upset and react, then ban them also!

So things continue to get grubbier under the new president.
When Gossips told me , I said it must have been pretty bad what he did and Gossips told me he paid the penalty for knowing more about the system than the ones using it.

So another good person gone. Perhaps headlines in Hooks section of the Sunday Mail this week will read Bay Sheffield Winner banned from saal.

I'm sure Graham will have a misguided article to run with on this.

The sad thing about all of this is, the people that have the knowledge that can actually help them , are the ones that they are getting rid off.
Just doesnt make sense.

If the gossips around the traps are real and what your saying is on the money TS and SA Whisper it's another sad day for the SAAL and the number of sad days is starting to multiply.

My wonderful contact in SA has told me those that were talked out of challenging the handicapping system last year were told, to "trust me". I can say that one club's "trust" that is very close to the president is starting to wear very thin!

I said, to my contact will you be a Stawell - His answer - I want too but I'm too embarrassed at this stage.

Take from that what you want

SA Whisperer wrote:Still trying to chase this one down, Gossips was on the dog and bone to me today.
It appears that you shouldnt make the saal look stupid at an appeals hearing and there after.
From what Gossips was telling me , A Bay Sheffield winner has joined Youngy on the sidelines.
Im still trying to stitch this story up but it seems that the saal have used their grubby little tactics all over again.
Is it another ban.
They call me the Whisperer but I couldnt do it without Gossips.

The saal has really got the bracenbits over someone knowing more about the current system than those that run it.
And I mean the real Bracen bits

Gee dont hold back Backontrack
I guess the thing thats really annoying but doesnt suprise me is , those people that were ramming it down our throats how good the system is , committee members and athletes such as Dan Semmler, Leah Watkins , Zoe Steele and Bryce Watkins are not competing this season. All mainly for personal reasons Im told !!!!

I hear your frustration but my suggestion is to be better than this by making a point without resorting to singling out people in this way.

There have been and still are alot of good people involved trying their best, and do this voluntarily. We wont always agree but sometimes we do, they no doubt have the leagues best interest at heart.
The decisions they have been making defy logic or realistic expectations resulting in angst, anger and frustration. In many ways its very disappointing.
Yes some have had greater input in bringing about where we are all at today, they had something different to offer, in many minds its not the right solution.

Admin will decide on the post but its not the direction I think we should be taking.

Personally I think we need a mediation session/s with the committee so those that dont like the direction things have taken can be heard and addressed. I thought we had a dialogue but when an email complaint was not addressed with no response that dialogue has disappeared and here we are frustrated with the lack of interest and willingness to resolve the issues better. Talkingpros has for SA become the only outlet of frustration.

I hope if this has been read by the SAAL that rather than seek and destroy whoever bacontrack is, that they use this opportunity to sit down with a greater group of people and sort things out once and for all for the betterment of the SAAL.

The path taken last season has not worked, the changes to last seasons platform has not worked. Time to meet, listen openly and change before its too late.

Backontrack, I’m going to delete your post as I don’t think this is the forum to publicly be putting down another person, using terms like flog aren’t necessary. Yes this is a public forum and you're entitled to your opinion but let’s try and keep things civil on here.

I think Top Sport has summed it up well, yes this forum has been a great avenue for those in SA to vent their frustrations, and sure there’s been plenty of them. But recent conversations have been shifting to how we can improve the SAAL and what changes need to be made moving forward. The ideas that Top Sport have mentioned should be seriously considered by the SAAL before it’s too late.

The SAAL just need to listen to the masses. Runners are voting with their feet. We Victorians want you to have a strong and vibrant league, but the reality is, we won’t come across to SA whilst this system is in place. Victoria has a proven solid system that has stood the test of time. For the good of the sport SA need to start again with a system based on Victoria’s. With the horrendous treatment of a former loyal servant to the sport, us Victorians need to know that all runners will be treated the same no matter who they are trained by or what their connections are.

Spot on Sanchez
If you were Kristerfer Kardakovski where would you be putting your blocks down this weekend
Loxton 8.75 m or Castlemaine 10.75

Apparently the SAAL use maths to work out their handicaps. Obviously not because if that was the case Kardakovski would be given a lift from his Vic mark to about 12m. He has no results which would give him 8.75m. He has run off 11m numerous times at the Bay Sheffield and never even made a semi. He hasn’t had any wins or times that reduce his mark yet they pull him from an uncompetitive SAAL mark back 2.25m. Pfft!!!!
The SAAL system is mathematically clearly a lie of smoke and mirrors, otherwise it wouldn’t have come up this absurd handicap. Their system has no other processes which justify this mark etc.

A complete joke!

Willo the Whisp wrote:Apparently the SAAL use maths to work out their handicaps.  Obviously not because if that was the case Kardakovski would be given  a lift from his Vic mark to about 12m.  He has no results which would give him 8.75m.  He has run off 11m numerous times at the Bay Sheffield and never even made a semi.  He hasn’t had any wins or times that reduce his mark yet they pull him from an uncompetitive SAAL mark back 2.25m.  Pfft!!!!
The SAAL system is mathematically  clearly a lie of smoke and mirrors, otherwise it wouldn’t have come up this absurd handicap.  Their system has no other processes which justify this mark etc.

A complete joke!

Base Mark
9.38m
No one knows completely how the base mark is arrived at.
So Kardakovski base mark is 9.38 !!!!!!!! how the hell, and it dribbles down from there.
Kardakovski aint no smokey .

Looking at the handicaps , the race is set up for a single digit winner or the complete backmarker , no one else can win.

SA Whisperer wrote:

Willo the Whisp wrote:Apparently the SAAL use maths to work out their handicaps.  Obviously not because if that was the case Kardakovski would be given  a lift from his Vic mark to about 12m.  He has no results which would give him 8.75m.  He has run off 11m numerous times at the Bay Sheffield and never even made a semi.  He hasn’t had any wins or times that reduce his mark yet they pull him from an uncompetitive SAAL mark back 2.25m.  Pfft!!!!
The SAAL system is mathematically  clearly a lie of smoke and mirrors, otherwise it wouldn’t have come up this absurd handicap.  Their system has no other processes which justify this mark etc.

A complete joke!

Base Mark
9.38m
No one knows completely how the base mark is arrived at.
So Kardakovski base mark is 9.38 !!!!!!!! how the hell,  and it dribbles down from there.
Kardakovski aint no smokey .

Kardakovski start mark indexed with start time of 12.45 in Vic is basically 10.50m. However that start mark is his last mark. His maths would give him about a further 1.75m to run 12.45 but we don’t allow that in Vic. We don’t plonk people out on their maths they have graduate toward that through performance. Therefore his Vic mark would give him a mathematical point of 12.60 which is what Loxton is apparently set for. Therefore his Vic mark on their plonking method should have remained despite what they might polonium others on.

Kardakovski off his extensive results off about 11m would run about 12.60. So to tell me he has an absurd base Mark of 9.38m and put him on 8.75m is absurd. None of that makes sense and does actual correlate with any maths or commons sense.

The SAAL have no transparency, are providing false and misleading justification for their handicap allocations and they wonder why no one has any confidence or belief in what they are doing.

Yet another nail in their coffin. SAAL Self destruction just seems to continue!

Base Marks argh! The base mark is not transparent, it can be worked out by you or me if you want to go through all of the data, who has the time?
Changes to parameters is one thing now there appears to be constant changes to the Nett target times, sometimes this is relayed to everyone sometimes its changed without any notice.
The target time has changed so everyone goes back. The question must be asked if you cant get close to nett off 10m going back 2m isnt going to change things even when the nett target time also changed.
Under a "normal" handicap process I would assume Kardakovski would be on 10 or 10.5. Its 2 years ago he ran at the Bay off 10m in the restricted, he looks to have improved a little since then but still needs at least 10.

The guy that had his travel costs covered by the SAAL should be on it here. Aston, Williams will also feature.

He ran off 11m in the gift and was uncompetitive when he ran in SA running slower than 12.60.

His results since then are not fast anywhere and they do not give him him a base mark like they claim. It’s all dribble and smoke and mirrors!!

To run 12.60 he needs at least 10.5m.

A complete joke!

A reduction of 2.25m from his last gift mark in SA would normally mean he has run very fast from his old mark or alternatively won a classic and none of them have happened.

SAAL ... you just don’t get it!!!! Your system is full of crap and everyone knows it!

If you look at his mps in the formula:
Top 3/6 runs MPS: 8.779 (6 Runs)
Top run MPS: 8.850 (1 Run

and take his 8.779 I assume is the average over these 3/6 runs and times it by the target time of 12.6 you get 110.6m which suggests he would be off 9.5m.
You can then see why its frustrating to see that even off 10.5m he runs approx 12.9's so even more frustrating to see him off 8.75m

So why is it the system and "historic" mps says 9.5, his actual results says minimum 10.5 and gets appointed 8.75m??

Its clear to most that some component of this is not right but which bit?

At Warnambool he did run a 12.6 off 10.25 and off 10m at Wangaratta so it could be assumed he is capable of running a 12.6 just not off 8.75!!!

You really got to love running and not care of the expense or the results to be in the SAAL otherwise why would you?