Is there another comp on the cards?

HI TS
Would your new league Rego enable you to compete in Tassie.

28 Nov Richmond
04 or 05 Dec Devonport (to be confirmed)
12 Dec PCCCT
18 Dec Rosebery
27 Dec Hobart
29 Dec Devonport
31 Dec Burnie - New Years Eve
15 or 16 Jan Central Coast, Penguin (to be confirmed)
22 Jan St Helens
30 Jan OVA Domain
Thats one hell of a package being presented by the Tassie people and good $$ to go with it Im being told.

We certainly would like to see that to be the case.
Free registration to interstate pro running leagues (VAL, NSWAL, TAL, WCAL, QAL), as per the current arrangement the SAAL has.

Its hard to see the Bay being profitable as it is currently let alone when you have a fantastic grouping of meets in Tassie.
The release of the SAAL business plan has the 2021 Bay Sheffield making $2100. $20000 comes from Events SA, this 20k is based on the numbers attending the event. based on last years numbers the Bay this year needs 100% more interstate athletes entering, this is highly unlikely. They also need approx 50% more local athletes entering, this aint happening either, they also need at least 50% more coming into Glenelg Oval to watch, this also highly unlikely given they are charging people to enter. The income earned from gate ticket sales will therefore not be what they budget. If these numbers are not met Events SA will pull the sponsorship!
The entrant numbers will not be what they budget for therefore the meet makes a loss, the gate sales will be down on budget forecast, a greater loss for the meet, and if the 20K disappears for the following years, greater losses.
The business plan tells us all if a meet does not make a profit it will not go ahead. The numbers for this year dont add up, on their business plan the Bay technically shouldnt be going ahead.
If athletes from the VAL and the SAAL etc can get down to Tassie over Christmas it looks very bad for the Bay.
This is fact its all based on the numbers they have provided, its not me trying to create a stir, its fact.

Why is this happening to the Bay, blind stubbiness and the dreaded handicap system they just cant seem to let go of when we all know its the cause, it has to go.

In other news we might get this SAPRL up and running which will assist the SA athletes heading over to not just Tassie but the VAL etc.

Once again TS you are all over it

F 1 Transparent, responsible
financial structures with
regular reporting to
management
1. Audited Annually
2. Budget for all Meets.
3. Do not run a Meet if unprofitable

Business plan states DO NOT RUN A MEET IF UNPROFITABLE
Doesnt say will consider not running , it says DO NOT RUN
Also this is every meeting not just the Bay.
Hard to see how the travelling circus can make a profit at Crystal Brook when its up against Ballarat.
Like I said Watch This Space.

What is quite disappointing is that Mr Bean thought it appropriate to discredit myself and the business plan we have put together and presented to the VAL when he has not even seen it.
He was highly critical on how our sponsorships would go, asking if my business would cover it all. YET. His competition is still seeking sponsorships for meets including the Bay Sheffield which is only 3 months away.
And he finds it all amusing!

Those Bay Sheffield budget forecasts could be presented with any estimates, over inflated nominations estimates, attendee estimates etc ultimately cover up reality.

Another initiative outlined in our business plan is to provide grants to coaches and/or athletes.
Some coaches have great support systems, they might be involved with a strong club that has all the support they need.
What about the coaches that dont have this support?
Our grants would assist them in obtaining vital equipment needed to improve their athletes performances. It could be an athlete needs blocks or shoes, whatever the need its the assistance that could create better athletes in SA, Australia, maybe getting them to the world stage.
Its got to start somewhere, we know its not being done by any other competition, all they want to do is dq athletes and bring them down. SAPRL are not about that.

For anyone that would like to an alternative fair SA based competition start, handicapped under the national handicap process, which is currently used in every state other than SA, then please contact your state competition, VAL, TAL NSWAL etc and ask them politely to seriously consider allowing and endorse our SAPRL competition to start up.

I wonder what interstate Coaches will be inducted into the Bay Hall of Fame this season.
Hoping they will bring over their squads and increase numbers.

Hi all. I'd like to give an athletes perspective on all of this.

After being involved with to the controversial events of last season, the events that followed, a strong supporter of my squadmates and coach who were effected. I'm honestly exhausted.

Reading through these threads of grown adults throwing insults at eachother like school yard bullies, behind a keyboard and alias is completely unprofessional and absolutely embarrassing from BOTH sides. To be frank after seeing all of this unfold I'm not finding it encouraging to be part of a new league at all.

The pro running community is small and tight-knit. Essentially athletes will need to choose between: stay with the SAAL, or move to the SAPRL and be shunned by the rest of the community. A situation which is grossly toxic and not something I wanted to have my name involved with.

Athletes make your league, no matter which league it is.

ASA is looking great.

Best of luck.

-Luke

The issue I have is, you should not have to pay for a service you choose not to use.
I intend to run ASA and Val post Christmas.
I pay for Club registration which is fine we me as I train there and use the clubs equiptment.
I pay registration to ASA which is fine with me as I run at Mile End and use the facilities and competitions they provide
I then have to pay a registration to the saal to run in the Val.I wont be using any facilities provided by the saal and run in any competition held by the saal yet they get all my registration money.
The Val which will be providing me a competition to run in using a handicap system I support get jack shit other than nomination money.I would happily pay the val my registration money.
The old adage USER PAYS

SA Whisperer wrote:The issue I have is, you should not have to pay for a service you choose not to use.
I intend to run ASA and Val post Christmas.
I pay for Club registration which is fine we me as I train there and use the clubs equiptment.
I pay registration to ASA which is fine with me as I run at Mile End and use the facilities and competitions they provide
I then have to pay a registration to the saal to run in the Val.I wont be using any facilities provided by the saal and run in any competition held by the saal yet they get all my registration money.
The Val which will be providing me a competition to run in using a handicap system I support get jack shit other than nomination money.I would happily pay the val my registration money.
The old adage USER PAYS

The service you would get from your SAAL registration is access to all pro running leagues in Australia. You're just choosing to let your disgruntlement get in the way of that.

And you might think you're 'sticking it to them' by 'sending your money elsewhere' but you're not. Boycotting a whole league, letting it die out, taking all of it's history, and athletes with it will not help any of the pro running leagues. I can see that and I'm as disgruntled as any.

Talk to anyone about history of the saal and they always bring up Colley reserve.History is being removed before our eyes.
If all I get from saal in return after paying Club rego and ASA rego is the service to run anywhere in Aust , I can get the same with the val and my rego money will go towards paying for track marking , up keep of equiptment , etc etc where I choose to run.
Look around , athletes, officials and complete families are gone out of the saal , thats the history, and no one is prepared to stand up.
The friends and families I ran with and travelled to country meetings with etc are no longer there.
Why would I want to run somewhere I dont enjoy.
Everyones entitled to an opinion and you have yours but Im not changing mine.

Thanks for giving us input Luke, I respect your opinion and making the effort to give it.
You do know better than most what it is like to be affected by whats been happening. Only 14cm from disaster.
The points have been made endlessly on how all this has been handled so far, could we have done better yes, however I guess from my perspective in all of this is the constant questions I get asked on why this or that is happening, so much of the disgruntlement comes my way, dont ask me why it just does.
Rather than just nod my head and go have a run, or as tempted as I have been in just giving it all up, what I choose to do is be a voice for those that are not happy. Yes its toxic, and something needs to change dramatically.
I/We have tried various approaches to have things changed that is causing all the angst. It has all gone ignored.
If we (and by we I mean all those that are unhappy) have no other choice than to come up with another option.
So many do NOT want to spend a cent unless they really have to with the SAAL. They dont want to run in the SAAL but still would like to run in the VAL. To this the SAAL still benefits.
Now your concern is heard, if the numbers dont improve in the SAAL what happens to it?
This is where SAPRL comes in. A new come but with the view to end the toxic issues that plague athletes and coaches with the SAAL.
There are plans to ensure the enjoyment comes back as well as a competitive environment. eg front makers and back marker events each meet.
We want to see the competition grow each year and have plans for this. This would potentially mean it gets worse for the SAAL, numbers and meets down. Pipe dream but eventually it might come to amalgamating the 2 comps back into 1, essentially take it over and end up with a bigger comp, back to a much fairer comp, a nationally handicapped comp with no more "system" no more banning individuals for airing grievances etc.
I'll apologise to you Luke and to any if they feel we are just being nit pickers or trouble makers. I personally feel I need to make our point very clear, we have had communication with Colin initially, we seem to have exhausted all avenues to fix the concerns of so many. Talkingpros is the only go to place, we know the SAAL read this so the point gets made and no doubt noted, still ignored but none the less.
The only avenue I see is setting up a new come, that has the things members like about handicap running.
It is exhausting, its is frustrating, it is very time consuming, but I only do it for those like yourself, your coach, Tom, Youngy, anyone that has ever come to me asking what can be done. I do it because it annoys me that it annoys you/them.
If you all tell me to shut up and leave it, then do so and I will.

I have a very successful business which takes up alot of time, I'll walk away and have more time for personal training (not athletics) and go to car shows couple of weekends each year instead.

This in no way a go at you Luke whats so ever, so I hope you dont take it that way. Goodluck with whatever avenue you take in athletics.

Hi all,  

Thanks for coming on here and providing some insight Luke, SA Whisperer and TS. It is very clear you are all passionate about our sport.

I’ll try and provide you with some perspective as a Victorian athlete, who is mostly a bystander in all this.

Firstly, I really feel for athletes in SA right now, having to deal with this must be frustrating, and as you said Luke, exhausting.

I know there are many Victorian athletes who have had concerns with the SAAL, in particular with the handicapping and stewarding systems. I think this has been made quite clear on the forum. Many interstate athletes (including myself) chose to avoid the Bay Sheffield last season, and instead run at the Tassie Christmas Carnivals, or stay in Victoria and run at Warrnambool.

The uncertainty of handicaps, stewarding and a lack of understanding regarding the new rules and systems, led to my decision to not compete at Bay, and instead choose Tassie. I know many others felt a similar way.

In my opinion, I don’t believe athletes should feel shunned by the rest of the community for choosing to compete in the SAPRL, ASA or any other leagues. I personally wouldn't have an issue with anyone who chooses to compete elsewhere. I completely understand why an athlete would not run in the SAAL. Given the current SAAL handicapping and stewarding systems, I think it’s okay if an athlete wants to go explore options elsewhere.

I have very limited info about what is happening behind the scenes in SA athletics. I just hope that something can be worked out and all leagues are putting the athletes first. I’d really like to compete at the Bay Sheffield again, maybe even Camden and Loxton one day. However with the current systems in place that won’t be happening, which is a real shame for myself and anyone who agrees with me.

At the end of the day, let's hope that the issues can be resolved and we can all move on and enjoy racing again.

Cheers.

Thats it, at the end of the day we're all passionate about it, whether we agree or disagree.
On a positive note the TAL are open to the idea but will be guided by what the VAL decide.

Top Sport wrote:Thats it, at the end of the day we're all passionate about it, whether we agree or disagree.
On a positive note the TAL are open to the idea but will be guided by what the VAL decide.

When do you expect to find out from the VAL?

Sweeney wrote:

Top Sport wrote:Thats it, at the end of the day we're all passionate about it, whether we agree or disagree.
On a positive note the TAL are open to the idea but will be guided by what the VAL decide.

When do you expect to find out from the VAL?

The TAL will discuss on Sunday, the VAL will have already had their meeting, I assume via Zoom? I have contacted the respective leagues to discuss collectively, perhaps they might vote, but I have had no response as yet from the VAL.

The unprofessional schoolyard bullies embarrassed themselves when they disqualified an athlelete based on a false time denying that athlete the chance to be rightfully acknowldged on the day of his win.
The SAAL president believes Luke Houlihan and his stable are a bunch of cheats and has trashed Luke's coach at every opportunity.
THE SAAL president has brought the SAAL into disrepute with his appalling behaviour and should apologise. Only then will some of the wounds heal.

Baltimore Jack wrote:The unprofessional schoolyard bullies embarrassed themselves when they disqualified an athlete based on a false time denying that athlete the chance to be rightfully acknowledged on the day of his win.
The SAAL president believes Luke Houlihan and his stable are a bunch of cheats and has trashed Luke's coach at every opportunity.
THE SAAL president has brought the SAAL into disrepute with his appalling behavior and should apologise. Only then will some of the wounds heal.

Not the only groups they knowingly target, that they want out of the sport. 7cm Dr Damian Tohl tells us was the difference in the Hudson result at the Bay which was .005. Hudson gets Dq'd only to find once again by Dr Damian Tohl pointed out multiple flaws in the handicapping & stewarding system, Hudson wins his appeal, Dr Damian gets banned for providing evidence, imagine if every time in court the person charged gets off and the lawyer gets the sentence???
I'd bet any money that if I entered a SAAL meet (not that I have any plan to), they'd call me over and ban me before I got on the track, just for the comments I make on here.
In the 550m you have the Oliver Burge debacle, still not sorted out almost 12 months later!
Who will be dq'd this year? Its bound to be someone. Those that ignore the coaches recommendation to do not run will not have the backup of the good Dr to support them in evidence.
These are still the issues being ignored. And you're all going to go around again for a 3rd year?
The topic of how a wind guage reading appears to have read a higher reading than its capability hasnt even been raised yet either.  

As a Victorian, can you explain what was the reasoning behind Damien Tohl getting banned? Surely it can’t be for giving evidence?

Sanchez wrote:As a Victorian, can you explain what was the reasoning behind Damien Tohl getting banned? Surely it can’t be for giving evidence?

Yes. Its the only involvement he has had. He was told he was banned after the Hudson appeal. They simply did not like hearing the system has issues.

The saal has been given a new name The David Copperfield League.
Makes athletes and coaches disappear.

That is appalling. Experienced athletes and coaches are entitled to question things that aren’t right. If you have full faith in your product then you should have no issue with people trying to point out flaws. The VAL system is on the website, spelt out in black and white for all to see. They wonder why we won’t come across with this sort of treatment being handed out.

Yep something is wrong somewhere.
When you consider that Bay Sheff winner / winning Bay coach, a Bay sheff winner and a Stawell Gift Winner/ Bay winning Coach winner have all been banned , you begin to ask questions.
Then in the past two seasons athletes of those two above coaches have been DQ.
Someone out there I feel is targeting them , possibly under the guise of others.

So we now have a league who has and an Open and Transparent computer handicapping system which has a band of handicappers making discretionary adjustments.
WOWEE

Discretion.................WOW

Been away for a break and just took notice SA Whisperer that the views on this post on a new competition has over 1500 views yet the interest in the old comp on which the 2021 Bay Sheffield was made a topic has only 120 views. So I wonder if Mr Rowston thinks it is still amusing a few weeks later?
Where is the interest really at?

SA Whisperer wrote:Crystal Brook this far out is looking like being a real fizzer, what you call a THONG , aka Flip Flop.
Unless the saal change the date.

Hey Whisperer , if you are out there.
You posted this almost half a year ago