Bay Sheffield Semi heats

Can someone explain to me how the semi heats are drawn for prestige races
My understanding is , that if you run a quick heat time , you get a favourable draw in the semis.
My understaning there is a formula that arranges the semi fields without any human intervention.
My understanding is that this is the fair way of doing it especially when good cash is involved and Bookies and/or Calcutta are part of the race.
My understanding is it is done this way so heats cant be rigged.
So please can someone tell me how in the hell did Corey Baker who ran the second fastest heat end up with Thomas McClure who ran the 4th quickest time out of 64 athletes in his heat in his semi.I would be extremely pissed off if I had bought Coreys heat in the Calcutta only for human intervention maybe costing him a place in the final.
Im told that heats were arranged to suit a certain coach who had athletes set to meet each other in the same semi
Surely this isnt the case , as Meich, Phillis/Hicks and Young had athletes doubling up in semis as well.
I know its all heresay but Baker should have been in the final.
So please can someone explain what has happened.
Was he hard done by or not.
Ive gone to the rule book posted by Jenny Poole prior to this season

13.9 Heats – Transfer, Special
Athletes must compete in heats in which they are drawn except in the case where an athlete has
been transferred from one event to another in accordance with Rule 9.7.3. Special heats for late
comers are not permitted under these Rules.

So have gone to 9.7.3 , and you know what, it doesnt exist , only goes down to 9.5
Saal need to fix this .

In the VAL semi finals are drawn in the basis of of seeding first ie -

Seeds are determined by the time recorded in the heats.

6 semi finals =
Semi 1 has the 6th seed and the 7th seed and the 1st non seeded backmarker

Semi 2 has the 5th seed and the 8th seed and the 2nd non seeded backmarker

Semi 3 has the 4th seed and the 9th seed and the 3rd non seeded backmarker

Semi 4 has the 3rd seed and the 10th seed and the 4th non seeded backmarker

Semi 5 has the 2nd seed and the 11th seed and the 5th non seeded backmarker.

Semi 6 has the 1st seed and 12th seed and the 6th non Seeded backmarker.

(For 3 semis it would follow the same format ie - semi 1 would have seed 3 and 4 and non seed backmarker 1, semi 2 would have seed 2 and 5 and non seed backmarker 2, semi 3 would have seed 1 and seed 6 and non seed backmarker 3).

All other semi finalists are randomly drawn into those semis.

There is no alteration to semis unless they are identified as non compliant with this process.

Stable mates etc have no bearing with the allocation of semis and never should!!

Semi draws are performance allocated and the integrity of the semi draw is paramount to fair racing!!

No coach should even contemplate suggesting a change to semis in any circumstance unless not compliant with fairness principles.

A chief steward should never entertain any alteration unless not compliant with these fairness principles and processes.

Corey Baker (seed 2)  should never have been with McClure (seed 4).

To hear that the original semis were altered because a coach had some of his athletes clashing and then changing it to accomodate him/then and undermining a fair and integrity based seed application is very concerning!!

If so, The Chief Steward should be quickly educated that should never be entertained!!  Idiotic to change correctly seeded semis to accomodate stable clashes and end up with unfair seeded semis! Appalling!

Corey Baker and McClure and everyone else in that semi was harshly treated!!  This benefited others.  McClure did well to overcome the Semi and Baker was screwed, that should not happen!!

Cheers Willo.
In accessing McClure who actually ran the 4th fastest time overall.Does he get seeded behind all heat winners or does he get slotted in as 4th seed on his time although he finished 2nd.

Times are the basis for seeding, not placings.

Baker was 2nd seed and McClure was 4th seed.

They should have never been together!!
Unfair on them and everyone else in that semi !!

Race report will make interesting reading.If what has happened as the rumours suggest , there is no defence.
Bakers times were very consistant across the day and he deserved his spot in the final.His times alone suggest that.
I know a lot of people will say , you need to beat everyone sometime , wether heat , semi or final to get the sash.But making the final is a thrill in itself.
What may have happened is no reflection on any athlete or coach , the buck stops right at the front door of the person who may have flicked the switch.

If correctly drawn the semis should have been -

Semi 1 -
Seed 6 - Poole 12.333
Seed 7 - Doney 12.361
Unseeded BM 1 - Murphy

Semi 2 -
Seed 5 - Hunt 12.328
Seed 8 - Hoffman 12.364
Unseeded BM 2 - Moss

Semi 3 -
Seed 4 - McClure 12.327
Seed 9 - Kowal 12.365
Unseeded BM 3 - Ireland

Semi 4 -
Seed 3 - McKinnon 12.30
Seed 10 - Cordoma 12.379
Unseeded BM 4 - Hejka

Semi 5 -
Seed 2 - Baker 12.277
Seed 11 - Chan 12.407
Unseeded BM 5 - Doney

Semi 6 -
Seed 1 - Williams 12.249
Seed 12 - Boyce 12.413
Unseeded BM 6 (Atkins alphabetically ahead of Semmler who were both on the same mark).

All other runners are then allocated to semi finals randomly.

All heresay, but the final field may have looked like this

Poole
McClure
McKinnon
Baker
Williams
Hunt
The RED runner would have then ran from 2.50m which is a better look , plus 6 runners , 6 different coaches.

All heresay again , but if all athletes competed and ran their fastest times the result would have been this , WHAT A CRACKER
McKinnon 12.187
Poole 12.201
McClure 12,233
Williams 12.247
Baker 12.259
Hunt 12.328
Handicappers dream almost, RED running off 2.50m and a pretty close finish.

If there has been a clear manipulation of semi-draws for a race of this prestige you can say goodbye to your interstate's entering future saal meets. The VAL have a proven formula as listed by Willo the Whisp that removes all possible manipulation with the top 12 seedlings for a 6 semi gift. I’d be absolutely livid if I was Corey Baker. Could there be another potential lawsuit on the cards for the SAAL?

I think the SAAL need to address this ASAP because it starting to look like there has been clear favouritism to some, if what's being said is true

Rules are there for a reason!! I think it's time for a full independently run board that looks after the bay and takes full control away from SAAL.

Now I'm off to Marina Bay should be a good night here.

StevieBee wrote:I think the SAAL need to address this ASAP because it starting to look like there has been clear favouritism to some, if what's being said is true  

Rules are there for a reason!! I think it's time for a full independently run board that looks after the bay and takes full control away from SAAL.

Now I'm off to Marina Bay should be a good night here.

Yep correct Stevie, dont let this fester, but fess up to the mistake.
Dont go getting the street sweeper and sweep it down the gutter and hope it disappears.
Semi final fields have always been seeded no matter where you look.
Its simply the fairest way of doing things.
If it means getting assisstance from the VAL to run the Bay Sheffield then do it, we use the VAL starter and race caller when we need to.

Anyone that didnt hear what was said on the dais by the backmarker winner ,
Head to Bay Sheffield daytwo Kayo
Go to the 1 hour 48 min
Just to much rumour gathering momentum, amazing what silence will do.
So go to the link and time above and make up your own mind , it wasnt said in the toilets, on the mound , in the bar etc so its not private , it was said on the PA system so everyone could hear even Stevie Bee in Singapore.
It will be very interesting how the Chief handles this in his race report.

Z Score wrote:Anyone that didnt hear what was said on the dais by the backmarker winner ,
Head to Bay Sheffield daytwo Kayo
Go to the 1 hour 48 min
Just to much rumour gathering momentum, amazing what silence will do.
So go to the link and time above and make up your own mind , it wasnt said in the toilets, on the mound , in the bar etc so its not private , it was said on the PA system so everyone could hear even Stevie Bee in Singapore.
It will be very interesting how the Chief handles this in his race report.

I saw this!! And thought it was odd but didn't realise what it was about. So I'm guessing the Coach of the backmarkers winner is the Coach of the Athlete who was moved around and given unfair treatment?

Correct SB.
I have no doubt that the Chiefs decision cost Corey Baker a slot in the final, absolutely no doubt.
The method of seeding for semi finals has been around since Adam played full forward for Jerusalem and Eve cut up the oranges.
The fall out from this wont be good and like it or not the Chief needs to make a decision which is best for the league
After what occurred at the Bay its pretty hard to run with confidence in SA.

I see the steward's report from Maryborough is already out - this is run 4 days after the Bay. It gets you thinking, they must be investigating this issue. It's the only thing I can think of, that's slowed the race report up.

Day one is out but very scrappy.
300m Under 14 – Final
 It was noted that one athlete broke ‘Target Time’ and the remainder showed
inconsistencies in time from Heat to Final. Handicapper has assured the
Chief Steward to monitor moving forward.
550m Under 18 Boys – Final
 It was noted that four athletes broke ‘Target Time’ and the remainder
showed inconsistencies in time from Heat to Final. Chief Steward is
requesting a re-assessment of those handicaps of those four athletes
by the Handicapper.
550m Under 18 Girls – Final
800m Men’s – Final
 It was noted three athletes broke ‘Target Time’ and the remainder showed
inconsistencies in time from Heat to Final. Chief Steward is requesting the
handicaps be closely reviewed by the Handicapper.
At a big meeting such as the Bay Sheffield , some athletes are going to burn themselves in just qualifying so will drop time in the final.Others will conserve energy in the circle events to go quicker in the final.ITS A KNOWN FACT.
Yet obviously not known by the Chief who wants to highlight it several times.
Over stewarding.
AS for Day 2 its pretty hard to do a report on yourself in regards to the drawing of the semi heats.
But Stevie not sure where you get your info , but you are on the money, the chief is trying to track down an athlete who apparently ran too fast at the Bay but here we are almost two weeks after the event and hes only just caught up with the runner.Almost two weeks after the event, REALLY.If it was so bad , why not on the day.

Those waiting on the Stewards Report , you will find the response to the semi final heats being manipulated, way down the bottom ,

CHIEF STEWARD’S COMMENTS
120m Men’s Semi Final – Redraw
 After the conduct of the Heats and post initial allocation of the Semi Finals,
the Chief Steward was approached by a Coach and asked to consider a
redraw on the basis that three of his athletes were drawn in the same Semi.
After consultation with the Chief Judge and the Assistant Steward, a decision
was made to agree to this request.
 After the conduct of the Semi Finals, it became apparent to me that whilst
the redraw was done in good faith and with good intent, the redraw
advanced two athletes of the Coaches’ Stable and disadvantaged another
athlete (Corey Baker). In association with the League Executive we have
determined that in future, system derived Semi Finals will NOT be changed
under any circumstance

Tell Corey Baker that.Im sure hes impressed.
The buck stops at the Chief Steward, but why not throw the Chief Judge and Assistant steward under the bus as well.
An apology to everyone would have been the right thing to do .Baker wasnt the only person affected.
McClure probably had to go harder in the semi to hold off Baker than he would have liked
Noted that he went quicker in the semi than final.
He had already ran his race.

What was the problem with 3 of this coach's athletes being drawn in the same semi? The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that the Chief has accepted that having 3 athletes in the same semi is somehow "unfair" on the chances of the coach having an athlete (or multiple as happened) in the final and has therefore deliberately attempted to manipulate the outcome to better suit one particular coach.

This is not with good intent or in good faith and no one reading this statement would believe it for a second. Legitimately one of the worst examples of cheating seen for a while. No other word for it and would love to hear anyone explain otherwise.

donatello wrote:What was the problem with 3 of this coach's athletes being drawn in the same semi? The only conclusion that can be drawn here is that the Chief has accepted that having 3 athletes in the same semi is somehow "unfair" on the chances of the coach having an athlete (or multiple as happened) in the final and has therefore deliberately attempted to manipulate the outcome to better suit one particular coach.

This is not with good intent or in good faith and no one reading this statement would believe it for a second. Legitimately one of the worst examples of cheating seen for a while. No other word for it and would love to hear anyone explain otherwise.

100% DT this a clear manipulation and yet there's no apology no actual ownership. I feel for Baker and his coach who I think it PY. If I was PY I wouldn't be going near the league anymore.

If an AFL umpire makes a mistake he's out the next week - go ask the boys running around in VAL. Until proper ownership is taken the SAAL may as well go join the Circus or even better move to Cooper Pedy because their credibility is shot.

Also Maxwell how the in the stupidity of the SAAL do you fine an athlete who in a 1600 race breaks targeted key word there targeted by 4 seconds? Now I'm no Einstein but wind can cause this, the track can cause this and even the fact adrenaline can cause this. Just remember it's the bay probably his Grand Final.
The steward's report takes into consideration an over-35s race. You can't compare the pair. He runs longer in the over 35s so there for his metres per isn't going to align with his open race.

He then runs the vets 1600m at Port Adelaide and then the open can't back up heavy legs. Port Adelaide was in November FYI. This run shouldn't be included any smart handicapper should know this and that's what they're worried about.

This is a targeted if you ask me.

SB

With Maxwell he competed at 6 meeting prior to the Bay this season.
At 3 of these meetings he won races , half the meetings hes competed at he wins a sash.
Not much hiding to be done there. What a joke.
As for the semi heats debacle , hidden right down the bottom of the report so if you dont scroll down you miss it.
Major mistake at the major meeting , should have been an independant news release.

First of all , well done to all those who turned up to run last night, but if the league thought there would be no downside of the decisions being made , they need to do a rethink, not a redraw.
This is the Gift Final last night. RED off 7.50m
City of Onkaparinga Reynella Gift Carnival - Jan 19th 2024
Event 775 - 120m Mens - Final:
Wind Reading: 0.1 MPS
Track Rating:
Position Name Colour Mark Time Adj Time
1 Oliver Burge Green14.25m 12.553 12.559
2 Hayden Rothe Yellow11.50m 12.629 12.635
3 Luke Rigby White 9.00m 12.793 12.799
4 Danny Hildyard Red 7.50m 13.003 13.009
5 Charlie Hildyard Blue 10.00m 13.177 13.183
6 David Palmer Black 17.75m 13.325 13.331

One of the poorest finals I’ve witnessed the Reynella 120m Men’s, but taking nothing away from the winner.

The Chief Steward , simply has to call it a day.Shows no understanding of the rules and has lost all respect.If he stays , you may as well shut the door.I understand hes tried but you have got to know the basics , surely.
Been hearing that some Vics are not returning and some locals are seeing out the season and then they are out of here.
Saal really needs to use the broom and rebadge.
150 entries for the Barossa meeting , the drums are beating, most straight out finals.
Camden will prop up the wonky donkey for a week but it doesnt look good for the league.
I reckon you can probably pencil in about 110 competitors at the Barossa , and out of those competitors about 70 individuals.

[quote="Z Score"]
I reckon you can probably pencil in about 110 competitors at the Barossa ,
SPOT ON THE MONEY Z SCORE
7 competitors fronted for the 100m, 7 fronted for the 400m follow the leader race, 9 fronted for womens 100m, and 3 fronted for womens 800m.
Is that the worst ever at a meeting.